A discussion with János Pakucs on work, innovation, work and sports

We knew that we were in for a big surprise when we decided to interview János Pakucs, who served as the chairman of the Innovation Board of the National Research, Development and Innovation Office for a decade, considering that even if we had talked only about innovation and his relationship with innovation, it would have taken up several pages. Nevertheless, we thought we would take a look at the life of János Pakucs through a wider window, and try to show the tirelessly creative and hard-working man behind the achievements, the organisations he has founded and the positions he has held.

Looking at your biography, I saw that you were born in Budapest, but studied at the Benedictine Highschool School in Győr. How did a boy from Pest become a Benedictine student in Győr?

Unfortunately, I did not have a wonderful childhood in the classical sense. I was born during the war: I met my father for the first time when I was 14, when he returned home from war captivity. Our apartment in Pest was taken away from us and my mother and I moved to Győr. I was a good student, and when I had to decide where to continue my studies after primary school, I chose the Czuczor Gergely Benedictine High School in Győr, because I thought that it offered the highest quality of teaching. Everyone tried to dissuade me from this decision, because at that time, those who graduated from a public secondary school had far better chances of getting into higher education. But I knew what I wanted, so I went to the Benedictines and made it clear that I wanted to attend this school and only this school. Seeing how committed I was, they admitted me. My father, as I mentioned, had just returned home and my mother was very ill, so I was on my own during my high school years.

Did you already know at that point that your wanted to pursue a career in engineering?

I only knew that I definitely wanted to go to university, but at the time I didn't have any more specific ideas. As one might expect, nobody from the Benedictines was admitted to higher education, including me, although I applied everywhere, even to the College of Theatre Arts as a cameraman, because I was an amateur photographer and had my own laboratory. I also applied to the University of Technology in several rounds, I passed the entrance exams every time, scoring high marks, but I was always rejected on grounds of oversupply of students. After the third rejection, I decided to take my fate into my own hands. I went to the then Rector Zoltán Csűrös, told him what my results were in the entrance exams and asked him if I would ever be admitted to the university, because if not, I would not waste any more time preparing. The semester has already started when I received the letter from the Minister that I had been accepted. So, this is how I began my journey to becoming an electrical engineer in 1965.

What happened after university, where did you find a job?

I went on to work in Győr at the electrical engineering division of the public company there and after a year I was promoted, in several stages, to manager. In 1970 I decided to return to Budapest. I applied for a job at one of the largest electrical engineering companies in the country, I was hired and after three years I was offered the position of technical director. It turned out, however, that I was supposed to meet other conditions, so I soon found myself on the street. Then, with great difficulty, through an old friend of mine, I got a job as a financial administrator at the Central Research Institute for Physics of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences. And since I was already involved in economic affairs, I decided to study economic engineering at the University of Technology, and then economics at the University of Economics. I received my diploma in 1978, and a year later I was awarded my doctoral degree in business organisation and management. The following year, in 1980, I became the managing director of the then newly founded Hungarian Hydrocarbon Research and Development Institute, where my colleagues and I managed to set up Hungary’s largest industrial research institute in two years. After the dissolution of the National Petroleum and Natural Gas Trust of Hungary and with it the Research Institute, I joined Olajterv Zrt. in 1990, where I was managing director for over 25 years, while the company underwent several changes.

In parallel with your official, professional life, there have been other things going on. For example, in 1990 you founded the predecessor of the Hungarian Association for Innovation (MISZ). Did you always have the inclination to innovate, to create something new?

I have always been interested in innovation and have published a lot on this topic. My feeling was that the biggest problem in R&D is not the lack of money, but the lack of organisation. That is how, in the mid-1980s, as secretary general of the Society for Organisation Science, I had the idea of creating an association of companies with an interest in innovation. I contacted 30 companies that I knew relatively well and we founded the Hungarian Chamber of Innovation. This led three years later to the formation of the Hungarian Association for Innovation, a large national organisation with more than 200 members by then. We brought the term innovation into the public domain, organised events and conferences, and launched, among others, the Hungarian Innovation Grand Prix competition and the National Youth Science and Innovation Contest for young people under 20 years of age. From then on, my life has been driven by organising, supporting and shaping the conditions for innovation.

Meanwhile, you were teaching at the Budapest University of Technology and Economics (BME).

Yes, this is the third line along which my life has run: From 1985 I taught innovation management, decision theory and organisation theory at the BME. I also learnt a lot myself from teaching, because when you prepare for a class, you have to look everything up, so I had to be aware of the current issues in management theory, organisation theory and even industrial property law. Around the age of 70 I had to retire from teaching, but I loved it, and it contributed to the close relationship I still have with the University of Technology. In 1995, we established Pro Progressio Foundation, a bridge between the university and the business world, which, among others, supports young, talented students and teachers with 1200-1300 scholarship contracts per year. I still run the Foundation today as chairman of the Board of Trustees, and it is one of my favourite activities.

I would bring in a fourth line, if you don’t mind, and that is sports. You’ve always been active in sports, even before our interview you started your day in the swimming pool, so please tell us a little bit about the role this activity plays in your life.

That’s true, sports have always been an integral part of my life. For a very long time I was a professional swimmer, and now I continue to swim as a veteran. I started my sports career with swimming and pentathlon after Dénes Csáthy and Vilmos Magyar, two former military officers, founded the pentathlon section in Győr. Decades later, in 1990, I was responsible for the concept and the entire organisation and implementation of the Pentathlon World Championships on Margaret Island, and as a result I was appointed Vice President General of the Hungarian Pentathlon Federation and a member of the Hungarian Olympic Committee. I became so involved in this sport that I even competed in World Veteran Winter Pentathlon Championships, and my teammates and I won three times.

I stopped jogging and horse riding about ten years ago and now the only sports activities remaining in my life are my daily swims. As you already mentioned, today too, I started my day at the pools. I have been skiing all my life too, but in March, two years ago, I decided to quit it because there’s a saying that trouble always comes in the last round. So, I took the skis after the penultimate descent and stuck them in the snow...

Let’s get back to 1990, the year the Chamber of Innovation was founded.

At the time, Ernő Pungor, the legendary chairman of the National Technical Development Committee, was a minister without portfolio in the field of research and development. He appointed a body of 12 experts, of which I became a member, and together we laid the foundations for research and development in the country and managed all the public resources allocated to innovation in the Central Technical Development Fund.

In establishing the Chamber, your aim was to make Hungary a more innovative country. What was your vision for this process?

For example, in 1991 we organised a three-day conference in Pécs to discuss the opportunities for technical development in Hungary. Around 250 people attended, and drawing on the presentations and contributions made, we made concrete proposals on the way forward for innovation in Hungary. These conclusions have proven to be timeless and relevant today. Already at that time, we were calling, among other things, for a ministry responsible for innovation and for a law on the financing of innovation.

Shortly afterwards, in 1992, as you mentioned earlier, you launched the Innovation Grand Prix competition, stirring up the dozing innovation community.

More than 1600 applications were received, of which around 270 qualified as innovations. Over the past 30 years, the award has been given to the very best companies, companies that still operate on the basis of innovation. They understand that innovation is not a sudden idea, an invention that comes out of nowhere, a successful research project, a single patent that has been carried through, but a long and consistent process. If companies want to remain innovative, they need to keep delivering new results, because this is a prerequisite for constant economic growth. Innovation is not something abstract, it has to permeate the whole way companies operate at every moment.

Members of the newly created Innovation Association quickly realised the importance of reaching out to younger generations.

In parallel with the creation of the Innovation Grand Prix, which aims to promote and recognise companies, we have also made it a priority to find talented young people. On a business trip to Vienna, I met the head of an organisation that was involved in organising youth science and innovation competitions in the European Union. Through him, Hungarian participants were also invited to the event and they did a great job. Three years later, we received an official invitation from Brussels. Thus, we became the first organisation in Hungary to become an official part of the European Union’s innovation institutional system.

As we have seen so far, you have been involved in a wide range of things, and we have not even mentioned many of the important causes you represent. But besides MISZ, you were the founder initiator and leader of a great many other organisations and foundations. How did you manage all this work with energy?

For me, work was never just work, it was also fun, a hobby. These projects have shaped my days. I was still working long hours at nine o’clock every night, until midnight or even later. I'll never forget: once at 5pm, I received a request from my boss at the time to draw up a summary of a study for the next morning. That night I went to the theatre with my family, but I didn’t dare say no to my boss or my family. So, after the theatre, I set to work at 10pm and worked on it until 5am. I figured if I was asked to do it, I would do it.

And how are your days these days?

I oversee the activities of the Innovation Association, where I am Honorary President, and I run the Pro Progressio Foundation. In addition to scholarships, we also award prizes, such as the Eszter Pécsi Teacher Award, named after the first Hungarian female engineer. Eszter Pécsi worked among others in America in the 1960s. She designed the structural foundations for all the skyscrapers built in Manhattan at the time The award is open to secondary school teachers working in the field of science, with a panel of 6-8 experts selecting the best candidates and awarding them a prize of one million forints for their outstanding work. Because without knowledge, without learning and without excellent professionals, there can be no innovation, and I am all for that.

Károly Bognár – Zsófia Szőllőssy