The idea that ignites innovation often comes when we are able to think outside the box and let go of our usual patterns. That’s exactly how our conversation with the vice president unfolded. Instead of standard panels and the traditional question-and-answer format, new thoughts and new questions emerged.

How about a word-association game as a start?

Sure, go ahead.

Innovation.

Doing something new and useful.

Morning coffee.

I sit out on the terrace.

Plans.

Plans exist so that we have something to change. Every activity only makes sense if it serves the achievement of a previously set goal.

Goal.

Something I want to achieve.

Obstacle.

Opportunity. I mean, if you solve it, you’ll learn something about yourself or about the process.

Failure.

That’s not really failure. If you can’t accomplish what you planned, something is still missing. Either you have to work on yourself, or you have to create the tools. If you really want to achieve something, you’ll spend a lot of time on it, and eventually you’ll figure out how to solve it. Some things require years of investment.

Let’s stay on this track. In your view, how much time does a business have today to innovate, grow and build networks? Do they have as much time as, say, ten years ago?

Obviously, you need to make a living, stay afloat – that’s the priority. But beyond that, the most important thing is not for a business to make as much money as possible in the shortest time, but to find a cause and want to solve it. If it matters to you, you’ll make time for it. And if you devote time to something, you’ll eventually get good at it.

Is that already the top of Maslow’s pyramid? Self-actualisation or identifying a socially meaningful goal that’s even more important than yourself?

Not at all!

You need to consider what’s more useful: doing your work for forty hours a week, sometimes more, or carving out some time from that to think in broader terms. It may happen that an idea comes along then that makes it possible to work two or three times more efficiently.

Profit isn’t always measured in money either. Today you try to measure everything in monetary terms, but everyone knows that you can only eat one dinner at a time, only drive one car at a time.

And yet money seems to be the objective measure of success, and growth is also measured in money.

There was a time when my colleagues and I were also focused on how to keep growing the business. We always chose growth: more clients, more employees year after year. But I had a former classmate who aimed to keep the company at twenty-five people. That way, he has two days a week for himself, time to grow, they produce enough – more than enough – and he doesn’t sacrifice himself or his time for investors or growth issues. He is in balance.

I don’t intend to argue with that, but in public thinking, growth and expansion are still in focus. Or is that a matter of entrepreneurial culture?

Perhaps it’s a matter of human culture. It’s a human attitude – whether you’re able to recognise when something is already good enough.

In a survey, people were asked what level of revenue they would be satisfied with. Everyone answered with double the amount they currently had. Those with one hundred units wanted two hundred, those with two hundred wanted four hundred, and so on. So then – what counts as enough?

If it’s a human question: aren’t we hardwired to always outdo ourselves?

I think it’s wiser to recognise that there is such a thing as “good enough”. And if you have that, maybe you can find peace with it.

But here we are, sitting in an office, having a conversation prompted by a project whose mission is to foster innovative enterprises, to see them form networks, and to strengthen and develop these ecosystems. To create community platforms that support all of that. So who should an entrepreneur trust, and what makes them successful if, as we’ve discussed, at some point they have to let go of the process?

If someone has done everything they could in their own area, the rest is no longer up to them. There are things you can influence – and things you can’t.

Let me return to the question: what makes a company successful, then?

The people. It’s not like a pastry recipe that you follow to get the same result every time.

Though I was hoping to get the recipe for success here.

It depends on the individual. Whether the company is big or small, private or public – it doesn’t matter. An individual is essentially a set of algorithms. And a set of morals, responsible for certain matters. The individual is the filter – deciding what to allow and what not to. People are placed in leadership roles because they’re trusted. Their judgement and experience are trusted – it’s their job to apply the filters they operate by. That’s exactly why there’s no rule that guarantees success. There are plenty of cases where, despite doing your job well, you won’t reach your goal. In those moments, it’s crucial to have colleagues you can trust – people who know what they’re doing.

In the consultations held so far under the project – which explore how businesses operate – trust has consistently ranked as a key factor.

Because that’s what’s lacking.

We were expecting more tangible, deconstructable systems and models when we looked into what makes entrepreneurial ecosystems work well. If I were a consultant, it might seem unusual to tell a business owner that the recipe for success is trust. They’d expect something different.

But in reality, you can only start discussions and embark on development if there’s trust. If you know that no one will punish your first mistake – because out of ten things, at least two won’t work out. If you don’t trust your background, and your background doesn’t trust you, you’ll eventually stop even trying.

But trust can’t be bought – it takes time. For a colleague, investor or owner to trust someone, you have to spend time together.

The world has accelerated, and change now follows change even faster – time seems to be what we lack most.

But time does exist. You should go into business with people you went to school with, whose way of working you saw before you ever needed them, people you know. If two people work side by side and see that the other is doing their best, putting everything into the work, it can later turn into a strong business relationship. That’s why I say: it’s worth putting in everything we can – you never know how it might pay off later. If you have trust, you’ll have peace of mind too.

Do you assume people are this self-reflective?

Everyone has at least one area of work or life where they’re a bit obsessive – in the sense that they want to do it well. And they want to do it well because that’s what makes them feel good.

How can you build a well-functioning, effective team for all of this?

To use Gary Chapman’s five love languages as an analogy – everyone is motivated differently. Some by money, some by the opportunity to travel abroad, some love to present, to perform, and others want to publish.

Again, we’re talking about human factors. No magic ideas, no guaranteed roadmap. And yet many build a business on selling success formulas.

That’s like a vending machine – you put in your coins and it gives you the same product every time. But we also talked about obstacles. If you solve something, overcome an obstacle, that’s likely to be a working model. You can build a service around your own good solution – basically offering to others what you’ve already figured out for yourself.

Most people aren’t able to organise the world around them. Maybe 30 percent is what keeps institutions, utilities, hospitals, law enforcement, transport and so on functioning. And if that’s true, the same ratio probably applies to businesses. You can still be an excellent upholsterer, carpenter or electrician – but that doesn’t mean you’re the right person to run a company of twenty or build a network.

If an entrepreneur still wants a partner for their ideas, where can they find one?

Through personal meetings.

The project is also working to create a community platform that opens domestic and international spaces in the virtual world…

That’s needed too. You don’t have to experience everything firsthand – it’s also useful when credible people share their knowledge. And by the law of large numbers, if you keep asking, showing interest and doing this consistently, sooner or later you’ll be able to start something great.

This is exactly the process the project is meant to support. In your view, what’s the most important task?

Teaching. Take, for example, the cooperation between the Hungarian Innovation Agency and the TTCs – that’s a good model. They move forward together week by week, assessing what’s needed at a given stage – maybe training, coaching or personal development – and that shapes what comes next.

This kind of progress can be very helpful for a business too, because instead of saying “here are twelve courses, go complete them”, we guide them continuously – in today’s terms, we coach them.

What invention does humanity need most?

Calm. Contentment. And yet when you wake up in the morning, you’re already thinking about what will happen to you, your family, what you need to do – and you believe that when the day and the to-dos are over, you’ll finally feel at peace. Do you know the feeling that if you haven’t done anything by 9 a.m., you already feel useless? It’s like we’re all sprinting, everyone anxious that they’re not where they should be. We sprint so that sixty or seventy years from now we can look back and say “we did it”. But instead, we could be running around calmly.

The recipe for success: luck, trust, ideas. Do everything that’s up to you – and your luck will take shape.